[ Home | Contents | Search | Post | Reply | Next | Previous | Up ]
From: Kate
T1:
Category 3: Category 1
Date: 11 Aug 1999
Time: 13:50:51
Remote Name: pm546.isomedia.com
Here is the sidebar about what Sydney heard that night:
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 1995
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)
THE COURT: WE ARE OVER AT SIDE BAR. MR. COCHRAN, WHERE ARE WE GOING?
MR. COCHRAN: I HAVE ESTABLISHED WITH HIM AND WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHO SHE TALKED WITH THAT EVENING OR WHATEVER. I WANT TO ESTABLISH, AND I WILL DO IT THROUGH SOME OTHER WITNESSES PERHAPS, THAT HE BECAME AWARE THAT THE -- OF THE OFFICERS AT WEST LOS ANGELES STATION HAD A CONVERSATION WITH SYDNEY.
I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO BRING THE STATEMENT OUT AT THIS POINT.
MS. CLARK: WHAT IS THE RELEVANCE?
MR. COCHRAN: IT BECOMES VERY RELEVANT.
THE COURT: WELL --
MS. CLARK: WHAT IS THE RELEVANCE? IF HE IS AWARE OF A CONVERSATION, THAT CAN'T COME IN BECAUSE IT IS HEARSAY.
THE COURT: JUST TO ESTABLISH THE FACT THAT HE IS A LEAD INVESTIGATOR, HE IS AWARE THAT SOMEBODY INTERVIEWED THE KID. THAT IS ALL.
MS. CLARK: WHAT IS THE RELEVANCE?
THE COURT: THEN THEY ARE GOING TO ASK THE KID, "DID MOM HAVE ANY VISITORS OVER LAST NIGHT?"
MS. CLARK: THE KID IS NOT ON THE WITNESS STAND.
THE COURT: WELL, WHO KNOWS.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
MS. CLARK: WHO KNOWS?
THE COURT: NO, NO.
MS. CLARK: THAT IS NOT THE RULES OF DISCOVERY, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOUR HONOR, AND THEY HAVEN'T PUT HIM ON THE WITNESS STAND.
MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR --
MS. CLARK: I HAVE LOOKED FOR THAT PURPOSE --
THE COURT: HOLD ON. YOU DON'T GET TO BOTH TALK AT THE SAME TIME.
MS. CLARK: WHAT MR. COCHRAN WANTS TO DO IS LEAVE AN INFERENCE IN THE MIND OF THIS JURY THAT SOME PROBATIVE CONVERSATION WAS HAD WITH THE CHILD CONCERNING SOMETHING HAPPENING ON THE NIGHT OF THE MURDER, WITHOUT EVER CALLING THE CHILD TO COME AND TESTIFY AS TO WHAT WAS ACTUALLY SEEN AND HEARD.
AND IT IS UNFAIR. THEY WILL NEVER CALL THE CHILD AND THE COURT CAN'T MAKE THEM CALL THE CHILD. WE CAN'T MAKE THEM CALL THE CHILD AND IT WOULD BE CRUEL AND INHUMANE TO CALL THE CHILD TO COME IN AND TESTIFY.
THE COURT: WHAT DID HE CHILDREN SAY TO THE OFFICERS?
MR. COCHRAN: AS I UNDERSTAND THE OFFER OF PROOF AND THE CHILDREN SAY -- AND I'M TRYING TO QUOTE IT -- THAT IS A DECISION WE HAVE TO MAKE, SHE CAN'T MAKE FOR US, NOBODY CAN MAKE FOR US. PUT HER ON THE LIST. THE CHILD SYDNEY SAYS, "MOMMY'S BEST FRIEND CALLED AND MOMMY STARTED CRYING."
THAT IS WHAT THE OFFICER WROTE DOWN AT THE TIME HE HEARD THE STATEMENT. I'M NOT TRYING TO GET THAT FROM HIM, BUT I WANT TO FIND OUT IF HE TALKED TO THE CHILD OR WHATEVER.
AND WE WILL MAKE A DECISION ON THIS. OBVIOUSLY MY CLIENT HAS THE SAY. THE COURT: BUT IF SHE CALLED -- WHO IS HER BEST FRIEND? IS THAT GOING TO BE CORA?
MS. CLARK: NO ONE KNOWS. NO ONE KNOWS.
MR. COCHRAN: THE CHILD MAY KNOW.
MS. CLARK: NO.
MS. CLARK: THE CHILD, AS MR. COCHRAN --
MR. COCHRAN: MAY I TALK, MA'AM, PLEASE? IT WOULD DEPEND -- AND THIS IS A DECISION THAT OUR CLIENT HAS TO MAKE, BUT I THINK AS AN INVESTIGATING OFFICER, YOU HIT UPON IT, WE WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT HE DID.
AT THIS POINT I'M NOT TRYING TO GET IN HEARSAY. I HAVE A RIGHT TO DO THIS. THAT IS ALL I'M TRYING TO DO AT THIS POINT.
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, IT IS HEARSAY, AND IF MR. COCHRAN THINKS THAT THAT STATEMENT BY THE CHILD IS RELEVANT, THEN LET HIM CALL THE CHILD, BUT TO SNEAK IN SOME NASTY INFERENCE BY ASKING THIS WITNESS WHETHER HE IS AWARE OF A CONVERSATION THAT WAS HAD BY SOME OTHER OFFICER OF WHICH HE WAS INFORMED, THIRDHAND HEARSAY, HAS NO RELEVANCE, IS MISLEADING AND CONFUSING TO THE JURY.
AND THE ONLY RELEVANCE IT CAN HAVE IS IF THE CHILD IS CALLED TO TESTIFY AS TO WHAT IT SAID AND WHAT IT HEARD AND WHAT IT PERCEIVED ON THAT NIGHT, AND WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THE CHILD IS REFERRING TO SOMEONE WHO CALLED THIS NIGHT OR SOMEONE SHE TALKED TO. SHE DOESN'T KNOW WHO IT IS. YOUR HONOR, THIS IS SO IMPROPER.
THE COURT: HAVE YOU INTERVIEWED THE CHILD?
MS. CLARK: NO, NO. THE FAMILY WILL NOT PERMIT IT.
MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, WE WOULD LIKE TO AND THEY WON'T LET US.
MS. CLARK: US EITHER.
MR. COCHRAN: IT WAS THAT NIGHT, YOUR HONOR, AND THAT IS ALL I PLAN TO GO INTO. MAY WE PROCEED?
MS. CLARK: THIS IS SO INAPPROPRIATE, YOUR HONOR.
MR. COCHRAN: PROBATIVE.
THE COURT: I MEAN, ARE WE GOING TO GET THE CHILD IN? IS SHE GOING TO SAY WHO MOMMY TALKED TO?
MR. COCHRAN: VERY POSSIBLY SHE WILL. I PRESUME -- MY CLIENT DOES TALK TO THE CHILDREN GENERALLY ON A WEEKLY BASIS, BUT THAT IS A DECISION HE HAS TO MAKE, YOUR HONOR, AS TO WHETHER HE WANTS TO INVOLVE HIS CHILDREN IN THIS TRIAL. YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT.
MS. CLARK: THAT IS FINE.
MR. COCHRAN: WHEN YOU RULE AND THEN KEEP ARGUING, IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR US. WE WILL NEVER GET THIS TRIAL TRIED. I TOLD YOU THE PARAMETERS AND THAT IS ALL I'M GOING TO DO AT THIS POINT, AND I WILL LET THE COURT KNOW THE MOMENT THAT DECISION IS MADE. THAT DECISION HAS NOT BEEN MADE REGARDING THE CHILDREN.
MR. DARDEN: THEN IT IS IRRELEVANT.
MS. CLARK: IRRELEVANT.
MR. COCHRAN: VERY RELEVANT WHAT HE DID AND WHAT HE KNEW. HE IS THE INVESTIGATOR, YOUR HONOR.
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, THERE IS NO PROBATIVE VALUE UNTIL THE CHILD IS CALLED. ALL HE IS TRYING TO DO IS PLAY WITH THESE JUROR'S MINDS. HE KNOWS HE IS NOT GOING TO EVER CALL THE CHILD. HE KNOWS IT. THAT HE IS GOING
TO LAY THIS INFERENCE --
THE COURT: THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
THE OBJECTION IS OVERRULED.
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)
MR. COCHRAN: MAY I TRY TO SEE WHERE I WAS, YOUR HONOR? (BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: AT SOME TIME YOU WERE AWARE THAT OFFICERS AT THE WEST L.A. STATION WERE LOOKING OUT FOR THE CHILDREN?
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: I THINK THE ANSWER IS YES, SOMEBODY TOLD HIM THAT.
MR. COCHRAN: LET ME TRY TO RESTATE IT, YOUR HONOR.
Q AT SOME POINT DURING THE COURSE OF YOUR INVESTIGATION YOU BECAME AWARE THAT ONE OF THE OFFICERS AT THE WEST LOS ANGELES STATION TALKED TO THE ELDER DAUGHTER, THE DAUGHTER OF MR. SIMPSON, MR. AND MRS. SIMPSON, AT WEST LOS ANGELES STATION; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
A YES.
Q AND YOU KNOW THE NATURE OF THAT PURPORTED CONVERSATION; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND THAT CONVERSATION TOOK PLACE AT WHAT TIME ON THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE 13, 1994?
A I DON'T KNOW -- I DON'T KNOW THE TIME.
Q IT WOULD BE AFTER THE CHILDREN WERE TAKEN DOWN TO THE STATION; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
A I WOULD ASSUME THAT, YES.
Q AND YOU READ THE PURPORTED STATEMENT, DID YOU NOT?
THE COURT: I THINK WE SORT OF EXCEEDED THE COURT'S LARGESSE IN ALLOWING THIS.
MR. COCHRAN: CERTAINLY, YOUR HONOR. I APPRECIATE THE COURT'S LARGESSE.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: WITH REGARD TO THAT, DID YOU THEN YOURSELF, OR ANYONE AT YOUR DIRECTION, GO AND TALK TO SYDNEY SIMPSON ABOUT THE STATEMENT SHE HAD MADE?
A I DID NOT PERSONALLY, BUT I HAD THAT DONE.
Q AND WHO DID THAT?
A THE BROWN FAMILY.
Q THE BROWN FAMILY?
A I WAS INFORMED THAT THE CHILDREN WERE --
Q JUST A MOMENT. LET'S BE RESPONSIVE IF YOU CAN. WHO IN THE BROWN FAMILY? CAN YOU ANSWER THAT?
A DENISE BROWN.
Q WHEN WAS THAT?
THE COURT: EXCUSE ME, COUNSEL. I THINK WE HAVE DENISE BROWN IN THE AUDIENCE HERE.
MR. COCHRAN: YES.
THE COURT: MISS BROWN, I'M SORRY, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE YOU ASK TO LEAVE. WE ARE DISCUSSING FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES THAT INVOLVE YOU AND THE KIDS. THANK YOU.
(DENISE BROWN EXITS THE COURTROOM.)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DENISE BROWN HAS WITHDRAWN FROM THE COURTROOM.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q LET ME SEE IF I UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY. YOU ASKED DENISE BROWN TO TALK TO SYDNEY SIMPSON?
A WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU, SIR?
Q NO, NO. I WANT YOU ANSWER MY QUESTIONS FIRST, IF YOU CAN DO THAT, PLEASE.
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, THERE IS AN OBJECTION. THAT IS ARGUMENTATIVE AND THIS WITNESS IS ALLOWED TO EXPLAIN HIS ANSWER. COUNSEL IS CUTTING HIM OFF.
THE COURT: ASK THE QUESTION, MR. COCHRAN.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q DID YOU ASK DENISE BROWN TO TALK TO SYDNEY SIMPSON?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q ALL RIGHT. WHEN DID YOU ASK HER TO DO THAT?
A SOMETIME AFTER LEARNING ABOUT THE STATEMENT.
Q WELL, WHEN, SIR?
A I DON'T KNOW WHEN EXACTLY.
Q DO YOU KNOW WHAT MONTH IT WAS IN?
A I BELIEVE IT WAS PROBABLY IN THE MONTH OF JULY PERHAPS.
Q JULY OF 1994?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q ALL RIGHT. AND WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN AND IF SHE EVER TALKED TO SYDNEY SIMPSON?
A NO, I WAS NOT.
Q DID YOU WRITE A REPORT WITH REGARD TO THIS?
A NO.
Q THERE ARE NO POLICE REPORTS AT ALL WRITTEN WITH REGARD TO YOUR REQUEST AND WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT REGARDING THIS CONVERSATION?
A WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO EXPLAIN AGAIN?
Q I'M ASKING YOU -- CAN YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION? THE QUESTION IS ARE THERE ANY REPORTS?
A I AM TRYING TO. THERE ARE NO REPORTS.
Q WHEN YOU MADE THE REQUEST OF DENISE BROWN TO TALK TO SYDNEY SIMPSON, DID YOU DO THAT OVER THE PHONE OR IN PERSON?
A OVER THE PHONE.
Q AND DID YOU YOURSELF EVER MAKE AN EFFORT TO SPEAK TO EITHER OF THE CHILDREN?
A NO.
Q DID YOU EVER ASK ANY OTHER POLICE OFFICER TO SPEAK TO EITHER OF THE CHILDREN?
A I DID NOT WANT TO DO THAT BECAUSE OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES DESCRIBED TO ME BY THE BROWN FAMILY.
Q THE QUESTION IS DID YOU ASK ANY POLICE OFFICERS TO SPEAK TO EITHER OF THE CHILDREN, SIR?
A I DID NOT.
Q NOW, DO YOU HAVE THAT LOGGED ANYWHERE, THAT YOU ASKED DENISE BROWN TO TALK TO SYDNEY SIMPSON? IS THAT LOGGED IN YOUR LOG ANYWHERE IN ANY OF THOSE FIVE BOOKS THAT YOU HAVE THERE?
A I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
Q DID YOU EVER TALK WITH THE POLICE OFFICER WHO SPOKE WITH SYDNEY SIMPSON ON THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE 13, 1994?
A I BELIEVE I HAD THAT DONE BY ANOTHER OFFICER IN CHECKING OUT HER STATEMENT TO SEE IF IT WAS ACCURATE.
Q THAT IS NOT WHAT I ASKED YOU. DID YOU EVER ASK -- JUST --
A I WOULD NOT HAVE DONE IT THEN. I HAD IT DONE BY SOMEONE.
Q ALL RIGHT. WHO DID YOU HAVE IT DONE BY?
A I BELIEVE IT WAS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q AND DID YOU WRITE A REPORT BASED UPON WHAT DETECTIVE -- WHAT YOU ASKED DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TO DO?
A THERE WAS NOTHING TO WRITE, NO.
Q THERE ARE NO REPORTS? A NO.
Q IN THAT CONNECTION? WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE OFFICER OR OFFICERS WHO SPOKE WITH SYDNEY SIMPSON ON THE NIGHT OR THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE 13?
A I DON'T RECALL. IT WAS THE FEMALE OFFICER WHO TRANSPORTED HER TO THE STATION.
Q DO YOU HAVE A REPORT THERE THAT WOULD REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION REGARDING THAT?
A THERE IS PROBABLY A REPORT IN THERE.
Q CAN YOU FIND IT FOR US?
A YES.
Q PLEASE, SIR.
A (WITNESS COMPLIES.)
Q CAN YOU LOOK AT PAGE -- MAYBE I CAN APPROACH, YOUR HONOR. MAY I APPROACH AND SAVE SOME TIME?
THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU SHOW THAT TO COUNSEL.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
MR. COCHRAN: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: YOU MAY.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO PLACE BEFORE YOU, SIR, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT CONTINUATION SHEET FORM 15.09. SHALL I MARK IT AT THIS POINT?
THE COURT: YOU ARE JUST USING IT TO REFRESH HIS RECOLLECTION?
MR. COCHRAN: YES, AT THIS POINT.
THE COURT: VERY WELL.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: I WILL ASK YOU TO READ THE LAST THREE PARAGRAPHS AND SEE WHETHER OR NOT THAT REFRESHES YOUR RECOLLECTION REGARDING THE NAME OF THE OFFICER WHO SPOKE TO SYDNEY SIMPSON IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE 13, 1994.
A (WITNESS COMPLIES.) OKAY.
Q HAVE YOU NOW READ THAT?
A YES.
Q DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION AS TO THE NAME OF THE POLICE OFFICER THAT YOU HAD IN MIND WHO SPOKE WITH JUSTIN AND OVERHEARD A CONVERSATION BETWEEN JUSTIN AND SYDNEY THAT NIGHT?
A I MAY HAVE MISSED THAT PART. THE OFFICER'S NAME IS THERE?
Q MAYBE IT IS NOT IN THIS PARAGRAPH.
A I DIDN'T SEE THE OFFICER'S NAME THERE.
Q WHY DON'T YOU START RIGHT THERE, (INDICATING)?
A (WITNESS COMPLIES.) SORRY. I DO NOT SEE THE OFFICER'S NAME. OKAY.
Q ALL RIGHT. DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE OFFICER WHO SPOKE WITH SYDNEY SIMPSON AND OVERHEARD THE CONVERSATION BETWEEN SYDNEY --
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, OBJECTION. THIS ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
MR. COCHRAN: LET ME REPHRASE IT. Q WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE OFFICER WHO SPOKE WITH SYDNEY SIMPSON?
A OFFICER VASQUEZ.
Q AND IS THAT A MALE OR A FEMALE OFFICER?
A IT IS A FEMALE.
Q AND THAT IS AN OFFICER IN WEST LOS ANGELES?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND IS THAT THE SAME OFFICER THAT YOU ASKED PHILLIPS TO TALK WITH AT SOME POINT?
A YES.
Q AND DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER REPORTS IN CONNECTION WITH ANYTHING THAT WAS SAID TO THE CHILDREN, OTHER THAN THIS PAGE THAT I HAVE SHOWN YOU AT THIS POINT?
A NO.
Q DID YOU MAKE MORE THAN ONE REQUEST TO DENISE BROWN -- STRIKE THAT. DID YOU REQUEST ANYBODY ELSE IN THE BROWN FAMILY TO TALK TO EITHER OF THE CHILDREN, OTHER THAN DENISE BROWN?
A MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT THE REQUEST WAS MADE TO THE ENTIRE FAMILY.
Q ALL RIGHT. AND THAT DENISE BROWN STEPPED FORWARD? THE FAMILY CHOSE HER?
A WHEN I MADE THE REQUEST DENISE BROWN --
Q CAN YOU JUST ANSWER THAT? HOW DID DENISE BROWN END UP BEING THE ONE THAT WAS APPOINTED? DO YOU KNOW THAT? DID YOU ASK HER?
A I WAS GOING TO EXPLAIN THAT.
Q WELL, I'M TRYING TO GET YOU JUST TO ANSWER THE QUESTION?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. HE'S ALLOWED TO EXPLAIN IF HE NEEDS TO.
THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT, WAIT.
MR. COCHRAN: MAY I ASK THE QUESTION?
THE COURT: YOUR QUESTION -- HE IS ALLOWED TO ANSWER THE QUESTION.
MR. COCHRAN: I AM TRYING TO ASK A SPECIFIC QUESTION SO I CAN GET A SPECIFIC ANSWER, NOT A RAMBLING LONG ANSWER.
THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU REPHRASE THE QUESTION THEN.
MR. COCHRAN: YES.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU ASK DENISE BROWN TO TALK TO EITHER ONE OF THESE CHILDREN? YES OR NO?
A YES.
Q AND WAS THAT AFTER YOU HAD ASKED THE GENERAL BROWN FAMILY TO TALK TO THE CHILDREN?
A I BELIEVE THE FIRST REQUEST WAS TO DENISE BROWN.
Q ALL RIGHT. AND AS NEAR AS YOU CAN TELL, THAT WAS IN JULY OF 1994; IS THAT RIGHT?
A I DON'T HAVE A VERY ACCURATE RECOLLECTION OF WHEN THAT WAS. IT WAS SHORTLY AFTER READING THAT REPORT.
Q ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU SAY "THAT REPORT," YOU REFERRED TO THE REPORT THAT I HAVE IN MY HAND?
A YES.
MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE TO MARK THIS REPORT AT THIS POINT AS DEFENDANT'S NEXT IN ORDER.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN: DEFENDANT'S 1042.
THE COURT: 1042.
MR. COCHRAN: COUNSEL HAS SEEN IT, YOUR HONOR, AT THIS POINT.
(DEFT'S 1042 FOR ID = REPORT)